I’ve long been troubled by attempts to dissociate “voices” from other aspects of psychosis, but this concern struck me with particular poignancy a few days ago when I was introducing Chicago Hearing Voices to a group of very marginalized service users (most transitioning off the streets) at a peer-run drop-in center in Uptown. “I don’t have that kind of schizophrenia,” one man said, “I have the paranoia, doesn’t sound like you include people like me;” another reported that he did not have schizophrenia or psychosis or voices, but rather “paranormal experiences.” “Do you talk about those?” he asked. Increasingly, I find that I am almost always forced to clarify or backtrack in presentations on CHV. Even with respect to personal introductions, I’ve found myself growing increasingly wary of referencing myself as a ‘voice hearer’ (unless I add “and a service user with psychosis”, which seems both redundant and far-too-problematically rhetorically and politically displaced or de-centered).
The purpose of this post is not to delve into the academic literature and associated debates currently revolving around the connections between trauma, dissociation and voices, the population-level prevalence of voice hearing, voices as pathognomonic (or not) of psychosis (a somewhat bizarre argument that seemingly accepts the claim that psychosis truly is a “categorical entity” rather than a complex and over-determined cultural construct). Perhaps, at some point, I will tackle these issues at greater length in a more appropriate academic venue.
The issue I will stick to here is instead my growing concern that voices and voice hearers have been (or are being), as Romme famously put it, “liberated” at the expense of a messier, more complicated, and more politically self-aware exploration of psychosis—or the many, diverse and heterogeneous but nevertheless often tightly interwoven, experiences assembled under this historical and still culturally salient name. A few weeks ago Keith Laws (a researcher I disagree with close to 90% of the time), tweeted something I did (for once) agree with: “where,” to paraphrase, “are the psychological treatments and alternative terms for “formal thought disorder”’ he asked—why doesn’t anyone talk about it? What about “cognitive deficits”? What about the inability (in some cases) of select service users to communicate with others for decades because of these “inconvenient” symptoms…?
I’m afraid that the answer is that voices (never mind my own concerns that the division between voices and other thought-specific and perceptual experiences is tenuous at best) are, at the moment, sexy, both in academia and activist circles on both sides of the Atlantic, in ways that other “experiences” are not. Madness in its ‘positive’ form has, of course, always occupied a central place in culture (cf Woods’ Sublime Object of Psychiatry), and every generation—perhaps as a means of personal or collective ‘expiation,’ perhaps (ultimately) to salvage reason—has always appeared so eager to “liberate previous madness while enclosing within itself, in its present existence, the madman of the day.” (There is undeniably a certain pathos in the fact that my undergraduate preoccupation with Derrida’s “Cogito…” remains the source of so much insight nearly 10 years later.) Voices, I suppose, are appealing because of their myriad, almost-impossible-to-not-romanticize or exoticize—connections to multiple religious and spiritual traditions, to art and literature, to culturally recognized meaning and insight (rather than the black hole of even madder forms of madness), and so on.
Having said all this, I have not hit on the larger issue of, as I put it in an earlier post, the even greater complexity of the “agencements” (dynamic systems, assemblages) that I personally find most relevant and necessary—temporally drawn out intersections of race, class, social exclusion, culture, perception , trauma, disability and experience that go well beyond discrete psychiatric symptoms or syndromes as the appropriate anchoring objects of academic research or activist intervention.
Since I’m hardly at the center of discourse about “voices,” I’m certainly not in a position to assert that these conversations are not happening. If they’re not, however, they badly need to….
Reblogged this on hearingthevoice and commented:
Nev Jones is a collaborator in ‘Hearing the Voice’ and a member of our International Advisory Board.
I understand your concerns and agree with your anxieties, however I think hearing voices movement is very conscious of the limitations of language. Many “voices” networks also describe themselves as being concerned with other experiences, tactile, visual and thinking and other extreme states. There is also a growing movement called the Paranoia Network (www..nationalparanoianetwork.org) a sister organisation that has been set up in recognition of the diversity of experiences.
It is also important to remember this approach has been developing for the last 25 years plus, the fact it is becoming “sexy” amongst academia and activists is a by-product not a goal. We aim to de-pathologise, seek meaning and give hope for recovery and discovery. We have a long way to go in our journey but it is a start.
Paul,
I absolutely agree–many voices groups include a broad range of experiences–but in my day to day experience, the focus on voices, the language of “voice hearer” and so forth is NOT perceived by service users as fully inclusive. Again and again I have to apologize for this…
Further, on the academic side, various researchers are making strong arguments that voices are a form of dissociation and not psychosis… I would be very interested in your perspective on all of this (as well as other HVN/InterVoice members).
I get that, if this is an issue for people you meet it is real and we need to respond.
Firstly, “Psychosis as a Personal Crisis” (2011) edited by Romme/Escher is the latest publication with perspectives by supporters of the hearing voice movement, this book emphasises the individual variation between people who suffer from psychosis. I remember talking to Marius Romme about psychosis and he was clear it was episodic, not a continuous mind state and proposed breaking down psychosis into different types (drug reaction psychosis, trauma reaction psychosis, spirituality crisis psychosis, unliveable situations psychosis etc).
However the research shows consistently for most voice hearers their experiences (75% plus) they are not experiencing psychosis. On top of that, no relationship has been found between professional mental health care and people better coping with voices (or psychosis come to that). Conversely, people who do not seek psychiatric care, or discontinue it out of dissatisfaction, are more likely to learn to cope with their voices as people who remain in psychiatry. Many of the people like those you met in Chicago have been subject to this kind of psychiatry and may see their own experiences through the prism of this construct and self define themselves as having a psychiatric disorder.
Psychiatry does not help people cope with hearing voices. On the contrary, psychiatrists make coping harder by reinforcing the taboo on voice-hearing and prohibiting exploration of what the voices are saying. What is helpful to voice-hearers is not diagnosis and drugs, but learning that they can resist the voices, talk back to them, let them know that the voices aren’t the boss. Learning to cope with voices and psychosis is empowering, psychiatry is disempowering.
Paul,
I think we agree about a lot! I know all too painfully & personally what the mainstream treatment of psychosis & voices is like and this is precisely why I’m so passionate about creating alternatives for people, why I started Chicago Hearing Voices, why I invite Ron & Karen here, etc. I am certainly not a critic (in any absolute sense) of the HVN or InterVoice.
At the same time, perhaps at least in part because of my own experiences (a full range of so-called psychotic experiences), I do think the dissociation of voices from other experiences traditionally labelled psychotic is problematic, for many reasons. In my experience, so-called delusions and voices are often deeply intertwined, both can be (in similar ways) directly connected to trauma, and the outcomes for ppl with both are significantly worse than those with only one or the other (much of van Os’ work over the past few years has focused on this point; he refers specifically to a :hallucinatory-delusional syndrome)). I’m not sure how you personally define ‘psychosis’ (the mainstream literature is certainly profoundly problematic on this point), but I certainly worry that by dissociating voices so strongly from other “psychotic” experiences we are simply setting up a new hierarchy of value and meaning, by focusing so centrally on voices that we fail to develop equal alternatives for unusual belief systems, “thought disorder” etc, and are ultimately liberating voices at the expense of many other things… Does this make sense?
–nev
Hi Nev, again for me it comes back to language: As you point out the meaning of terms like psychosis are very problematic as is defining them as a pathology rather than as a human response, even if extreme and perhaps uncommon, still part of a continuum (what is being in love for instance). This goes for terms like “delusion” too, as in “your delusion my belief”, another way of describing delusion/thought disorder would be to replace them with terms such as “explanatory framework”, “I believe what is happening to me is this, that is my explanation”. There is a reality there, even if it is metaphorical and symbolic, it can be understood. However, I do agree the dangers your describe are real, psychiatry and psychology do seek to colonise the hearing voices approach and reign it back … meanwhile at the INTERVOICE meetings we discuss breaking out of the “hearing voices” axiom and widen it to include all of these extreme states we are discussing here. A prize will be awarded for the person who comes up with an embracing alternative!
Paul,
Ah yes–the really difficulty is definitely dreaming up alternative (but workable) terms for other types of experience…
Also, although I may sound as if I’m contradicting myself, there are certainly problems with over-expanding the focus of groups (in my experience)–e.g. I’ve simply never been able to speak to individuals with experience of depression quite the same way I have to people who hear voices/have unusual beliefs/experience profound self/world changes… Lots of tough issues involving boundaries and inclusion.
Thanks again for stopping by and commenting, though!
–nev
the everyone must recover or is a sack of shit mantra is equally prohibitive Paul Baker, you can have the nice philosophical discussions and shiny recovery speakers but it counts for shit with people on the margins for whom this goes completely over their heads. Intervoice and HVN wouldn’t even speak of what is happening to people in the UK at the moment struggling to hold onto their housing and service support [however crap it is]. Intervoice ain’t there in a crisis
John,
I think this is an important point, but (so far as I know) InterVoice and the HVN are not (and don’t claim to be) direct service advocacy groups; certainly the HVN-US is not. This is not to say direct service advocacy isn’t incredibly important–obviously it is. I also agree that there is a huge spectrum of service users, including many with pressing basic needs like housing, with varying levels of education and interest in theory, etc., but (in my own groups, at least) I’ve also been struck by the extent to which even very very disadvantaged service users (living in transitional shelters, with totally inadequate resources & financial supports) value the opportunity to participate in hearing voices peer groups. Ultimately, I guess, I see different types of advocacy efforts as complementary more than anything.
At the same time, I completely agree that there are complex race/class dynamics and intersections that (at least in the States) have been historically neglected by various powerful consumer/survivor groups and leaders. The whole concept of recovery also strikes me as profoundly problematic though, at least in the States, advocates and activists seem pretty aware of this. Not only has the term been utterly coopted and defused of any actual political punch, it seriously devalues the struggles and challenges of service users who do not “recover” or are not “in recovery.”
Thanks for commenting.
–nev
Hi John – who said everyone “must” recover? I would agree that without social justice the hope of recovery is limited. However, the fact remains that some of the most marginalised people have recovered their lives and got out of a system that essentially individualised their distress by pathologising it. I don’t think you should patronise people who are on the margins, they are not stupid and are well able to understand the hearing voices approach which seeks to collectivise an experience and give it meaning and power. The “crap” service support you seek to defend often locks people into maintenance care regimes. This isn’t philosophy it is reality.
A member of a newly formed HV Group in the NW of England has been living in a residential nursing care home for 11 years, they charge 850 pounds a week. She has a diagnosis of SZ, she hears overwhelming voices, not once in the eleven years has any of the staff talked to her about her voices other than framing it as a symptom of her illness. After only six months of bing part of the hearing voices group she has started to get her life back, reducing her meds, learning to live with her voices, attending conferences. She now wants to get a job and is talking about moving out of the “home”. The initial reaction of the staff was anger at the voices group for causing trouble as they saw it because she asked to see her psychiatrist about lowering her meds. Now though they are more supportive because they have seen the transformation for themselves
INTERVOICE is a grassroots organisation it, run on a shoe string, but it has probably done more for people in crisis then a hundred of these care homes, imagine what we could do if we had even a fraction of the money these homes charge. I think your anger is misplaced, rather it should be directed at the mediocre, complacent services that are sadly the norm in many parts of the country and its nots just me saying that, take a look at the last Mental Health Act Report if you need the evidence.
Er, John is spot on Paul, many of your elite grouping have dictated their brands of recovery actually so don’t you patronise him, Intervoice suppresses criticism.
..and do enlighten me what your group does about social justice- Intervoice serves itself more than people in crisis, get over yourself.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/01/the-hearing-voices-movement-beyond-critiquing-the-status-quo/
JohnB on February 22, 2013 at 2:17 pm said:
most people at the hearing voices group I attend are worried sick about losing their disability benefits which for some has resulted in ending up in hospital on section. Is HVN and Intervoice doing anything on this issue?
Best wishes
John
No response from John’s question to Jacqui Dillon of HVN, I rest my case, there’s no interest by hearing voices groups such as HVN and Intervoice in these issues is there. UK welfare and housing policies are a bigger issue than the risk of being sectioned because cuts to services have resulted in access to services [if you want them] being very limited now. I’ve never read a single statement from any of you about these issues, and there is a judgmental divide between those who use services, take meds, are in receipt of state support, are employed or not employed.
Nev it is a responsibility of all user/survivor groups [especially those with funding or high profile] to at least acknowledge and raise the subject of the social and political climate we exist within which has a direct impact upon “mental health”.
It doesn’t have to be one-to-one service advocacy. In the UK we have right wing ideology and the same disability denial company that your country had [Atos] which is taking away basic financial security from service users unable to secure enough income to live. It’s progressed to the point where people have lost legal aid, and [effectively] the right to appeal decisions [unless able to live on nothing for months whilst a decision is considered]. It’s been shown this goes against mad people disproportionately, some have veen starved, but charities are colluding with the ‘workfare’ programme [unlimited unpaid work] and people defined as mentally ill will be one of the key targets for this slave labour. At the same time changes to “welfare” [it was called social security here] have made part-time working options harder for people. There is a drive to force everyone into full-time hours by however many jobs it takes in an era of temporary part-time contracts which serve greedy corporations.
Speaking of ‘recovery’ when so many people cannot access, support, hold onto basic income and housing is almost insulting. I know the value of hearing voices groups I’ve attended one, but these were the issues I heard members talking about – their fears over their next Atos assessment, whether they will be able to keep their housing, whether they will be able to access any other support apart from the group. This has to be of equal importance to all the nice philosophy because when these are insecure it makes coping with voices, paranoia etc harder to manage.
The physical disability movement raises these issues, they know their members are at risk of having to move into care after years of being independent in their own homes because the Direct Payments they’ve received to enable that independence is going.
People defined as having psychosis are equally losing support that they THEMSELVES have designed. Hate crimes against sick and disabled people and people defined as mentally ill have risen, I see more of my friends unable to go out and their paranoia and fears about their ability to live is now greater than their fears of their voices.
The very least organisations purporting to be helping people live to their full potential is not bloody well deny this or fail to even mention it, because recovery workshops don’t put food on the table, not everyone can get a nice job in the recovery industry.
Recovery is even more of a poisoned chalice here with Nike-like brands of it which are frankly no different to what you hear our politicians mouth. If you fail to recover enough here you can be ridiculed, chastised, have your language and thinking ‘corrected’ by fellow service users and ex users, and you’re critical of it you get accused of supporting the disease model. Service users are shitting on each other. Nobody wants to hear you here unless you have a nice happy ‘recovery story’.
It’s like smile or die:
Thanks for clarifying–I can’t even pretend to have any on-the-ground understanding of (ex)user politics and organizing in the UK… We certainly have our problems here, but the HVN-US is tiny and has no discernible influence or power at a national level over broader political/rights/access issues. Our technical assistance centers and the NCMHR are the organizations here that are probably most powerful, and most of their work/advocacy does center on services and human rights. The problems here (IMHO), at least in terms of representation, seem to revolve around geopolitical and generational disparities/disconnects more than anything. We’re also in pretty dire straights (nationally and locally) as far as funding & support for mental health and rehab services goes…
Here too there’s also dogmatism, elitism and coercion both with the MH ‘system’ and within the c/s/x movement. Medication use seems to be one of the most polarizing issues….
Understood, I think survivor movements across the world need to focus on human rights regarding the basics of life before anything else because it’s hard for the anything else to happen without the basics. Just watched a programme here about how poor US citizens are treated, really quite harrowing.
Yep same here, our mental health services have been stripped down to barely nothing.
You see this is what really saddens me, the fact there is dogmatism, elitism etc within the c/s/x movement, within the system I expect it but not of each other! Yes medication can polarise and I wish we could just respect however people choose to cope [when it is a choice to use it]. I think ‘recovery’ is even worse though, there’s little tolerance of those who don’t worship at the alter of it.
Hmmm.. This is really interesting about recovery in the UK. Here I think many people (probably the majority of user/survivors) are cynical about the extent to which it’s been coopted and hence far less enthusiastic about recovery-based anything. The irony of “stigmatizing” individuals who haven’t/done recover in a normative way is definitely rarely discussed… (I actually wonder whether all the emphasis on people who “have recovered” isn’t literally worsening social stigma/discrimination (on a population level) towards those who remain ‘unrecovered.’
I’ll admit that sometimes I just don’t understand (but maybe it’s my age/generation) why ‘recovery’ as a construct and goal ever became such a fixture in user/survivor politics and system ‘reform.’ Maybe it’s because I grew up with a parent who will likely never, in any conventional sense of the word, ‘recover’, and so have always cared more about working for better supports, changes in cultural attitudes, etc. for people with psychiatric disabilities regardless of whether or not they’ll ever work, return to school, marry or meet other so-called “developmental milestones.”
one of my friends has a personal assistant through a Direct Payment [he was labelled as having Schizophrenia]. He wouldn’t fit into the recovery model [being employed, not taking medication, not using services], but I defend his self-management to the hilt because ‘independent living’ was about not being confined to residential care, and we all depend upon each other in some shape or form. He doesn’t have a recovery story that would be recognised as such but I admire him because how he manages his stuff is right for him.
He could lose his funding because of the current economic genocide which means he will lose half his life, but with this self-defined support he has a decent life
Nev that strangely reassures me that the tyranny of recovery [at its worst] as espoused within the system and survivor politics is happening in the US as well as here. Some of us have been feeling isolated and stigmatized for failing to recover enough, and here being employed is held up as THE measure of worth. In fact being in receipt of any state support seriously denigrates you in the eyes of some of our peers, whereas previously no one really cared whether people’s contributions were paid or unpaid. Now, it’s looked down upon to not make the transition into paid work.
Here so-called ‘recovery orientated’ state services are simply using recovery as the fig leaf excuse for cutting services, in order to cut ‘dependency’. Thousands are being discharged and have been defined as ‘dependent’ overnight. To access any support you now have to be in a really dire state with the right diagnosis and right presentation. Danger to others is really the only priority, some service users have joked here about how they might need to smack a healthcare professional in order to be seen as needing assistance which is not good!
We have record numbers of people on Community Treatment Orders, far exceeding the numbers predicted because some psychiatrists are using this to ‘guarantee’ their patients a service or bed as required. This is obviously a perversion of our mental health legislation but these are the lengths some are now going to. Of course a much larger majority are not placed on it for those reasons, but cuts to services and recovery ideology have not helped because it means services are less likely to attempt to engage with people who do not respond quickly enough and recover, so the hardest to reach get a more controlling response.
I hold cuts to funding and recovery ideology partly responsible for this.
The suicide rate is going up for service users in the community because stretched community services are little more than medication couriers, they were not quite as bad as this before cuts to funding and the rise of recovery ideology.
Quick recovery demands sledgehammer responses. Now when I refer to recovery ideology, I’m not referring to perfectly decent concepts such as self-management and living as well as we can to our fullest potential whatever that is, There’s nothing wrong with striving for anything you want including employment, education etc, but what has happened here is recovery has resulted in divide and rule. If you are not in total agreement, then it’s assumed you’re against it, there’s no tolerance or middle ground.
I also don’t grasp why some peers and critical thinking professionals believe that if you spend X weeks looking at issues A and B that somehow that’s it, you’re then on your recovery journey and if you’re not then you’re somehow not trying hard enough. If only it were that simple.
State services have developed ‘recovery colleges’ which teach people about their conditions [medical model] but then wrap that around a ‘recovery model’ – so you accept your medical model diagnosis, etc but in addition do all the ‘alternative’ and complementary therapies such as hearing voices groups, mindfulness etc and there’s the expectation that you recover, are in recovery. or you simply go away.
We have service users employed as ‘recovery champions’ basically state service puppets teaching their peers what they’re told to [or else be disciplined or get a job elsewhere].
We also have high profile service users who speak of employment and that people should take ANY work [even 2 hours contracts] under any conditions rather than receive state support. They speak of employers making ‘reasonable adjustments’, ‘graded returns’, ‘working from home’, none of which washes in retail and service industries. Typically the people who promote this have good employment [with paid sick leave] or a freelance business which is doing really well, some have never done low paid crap work where physical and mental health difficulties are just not tolerated within the high percentage of employers who don’t wish to employ mad people. Recovery work and some ‘alternative’ approach work is quite protected compared to other sorts of work.
I share your outlook on better supports, and want to see everything available, nothing [and no one] excluded, but with tolerance for difference. I think recovery here became the next ‘big thing’ for many reasons. Some of the thinking dove tails with right wing political ideology, it also serves entrepreneurs well who have been able to make a living out of it. This has been supported by professionals either wanting to make a name for themselves or promote their brand of therapy, or to ensure the continuation of their work using recovery as the best looking vehicle for it.
It’s a destruction of self, ignoring the truths of peoples experience is like insisting white is black and white never really existed. I guess what makes it worse is that those who currently ‘speak for’ silence others and mirror current political methods of argument i.e. if you challenge you are erased or attacked very personally i.e. ridiculed for failing to recover or questioned as to your employment/state support status – this happens. Anger at that is justified when the world sends a message that we can’t be who we are because it’s not good enough…it is so painful that this message comes maybe even more loudly from inside the survivor movement…There used to be room for all our voices – not any more, and you know it Paul Baker
Forced treatment, diagnosis, medication = the sexy subjects
Welfare cuts, housing, loss of access to services [no matter how bad they are] and judgement in the movement = silent, because it’s ideologically displeasing.
Political activism needed more than ever, there are some countries where being homeless is a crime.
Where are survivor-led organisations on this? Bloody nowhere.
I can be critical of psychiatry and services and the lack of political activism by survivors [and allies] at the same time, the two are not mutually exclusive.
To not speak on these issues is to patronise and negate the marginalised.
http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/05/the-hearing-voices-movement-has-it-really-been-25-years/